Emma Shean was finishing up her final year of university at Arts University Bournemouth and she was working on her dissertation on Vietnamese typography. She found my web book through her research and reached out to me for an interview. In the synopsis of her dissertation, she writes:

This essay will look at the typography in Vietnam, where I spent a month on a cultural immersion trip. It will begin by setting the scene of Vietnamese typography in terms of photographs of billboards, advertisements and posters, and analysing their colours and their significance in Vietnamese culture.

I will then delve into the history of the Vietnamese language, its origins, and the challenges of getting all the Vietnamese diacritics digitally encoded by Unicode and the lack of fonts with Vietnamese accessibility due to this late encoding. Donny Trương is my case study for advocating for this accessibility, and I will research how he is revolutionising graphic design and what fonts he recommends for Vietnamese using answers from questions that I asked him over email and secondary research. This will lead into the history and analysis of these fonts and why they are good for Vietnamese characters.

The Dissertation Interview

Do you think that custom designs for typefaces in Vietnam (including their diacritics) could boost their design economy?

Absolutely! Type design is still fairly new in Vietnam; therefore, the opportunity to boost the design economy in this area is now. By designing your typefaces with Vietnamese diacritics, you can reach millions of Vietnamese readers and much more with Latin readers around the world. It is definitely a career to look into.

How do you think the Vietnamese design world compares to that of other countries and cultures?

When I was studying design in college over 20 years ago, I didn’t see much attention paid to design in Vietnam and in Vietnamese community outside of Vietnam. That has changed now with more awareness of design. More design education is being offered in Vietnam. More young Vietnamese are getting into design. More Vietnamese design agencies are popping up. As Vietnam is growing, the demand for design and marketing are also growing to catch up with western countries.

Is your culture important to your work, or, if not, what drives your inspiration?

Yes, Vietnamese culture is very important to me. I left Vietnam when I was eleven years old and I always carried my Vietnamese culture with me. I listened to Vietnamese music and read Vietnamese literature profusely.

I often get my inspiration from my Vietnamese background. In 2006, I put together a Flash slideshow of Vietnam photography after listening to a French tune titled “Bonjour Vietnam,” performed by Phạm Quỳnh Anh. The slideshow reached many Vietnamese around the world and in Vietnam. Recently, I created a typographic sample page on “Bonjour Vietnam” for posterity.

Even though Vietnamese Typography was launched in 2015 and revised in 2018, I still add new content to the book site, particularly the section featuring typographic samples. These samples are driven by Vietnamese culture.

For your logos, how do you find typefaces to use, or do you design them yourself? Have you ever had to use a completely different typeface when you realised they can’t support Vietnamese diacritics?

For logos, I chose the typeface that would be appropriate for the brand. If the selected typeface had Vietnamese diacritics, that would be great. If not, I would add them myself. I don’t design typefaces, but I can customize an existing one just for the logo.

As for the second part of your question, I have not run into that issue because my priority for choosing a typeface is support for the Vietnamese language. If a typeface didn’t support Vietnamese diacritics, I wouldn’t consider using it for a project that required Vietnamese text. If I must use that particular typeface with no Vietnamese support, I would reach out to the designers to see if they would expand their fonts to support Vietnamese. I have all the resources that they need and I can also advise them in the design process for Vietnamese diacritics.

In a 2016 interview with Medium, you said that “you don’t think the Vietnamese people pay much attention to typography.” Do you still think this is the case, or has that changed in recent years as graphic design becomes more popular in Vietnam? Also, why did you initially think they didn’t pay much attention to it?

I made that statement in 2016 because I was frustrated with the countless Vietnamese online publications using typefaces that didn’t support the Vietnamese language.

On the web, if a font didn’t have Vietnamese diacritics, browsers would fall back to the system font. As a result, browsers would display two different fonts together.

The glaring examples where headlines were set in a scripted font, but the letters with diacritics were defaulted to a sans-serif font. I came across these issues on both the web and printed materials; therefore, I came to a conclusion that many Vietnamese people did not pay attention to Vietnamese typography.

I still spot mixed font issues once in a while these days, but I have seen tremendous improvements as graphic design becomes more popular in Vietnam. I also notice the change in the typographic scene. Through Vietnamese Typography, I talked to young Vietnamese graphic designers who paid attention to typesetting. I also talked to young type designers who created typefaces with attention to diacritics. I am happy to see the changes.

And finally, why did you decide to go to America for your masters degree, instead of staying in Vietnam?

I decided to get my masters at George Mason University because of the tuition exemption for employees. At the time, I was a web services developer at the law school. I didn’t give much thought when I applied. I didn’t think I could get into the MA graphic design program because I didn’t do much print design. Most of my works were digital. I was surprised when I got accepted.

I didn’t expect much from the program, but it worked out well at the end because I had to do a final thesis, which turned out to be Vietnamese Typography.

Khôi Trần là sinh viên năm cuối về môn học thiết kế ở trường đại học RMIT Hà Nội. Khôi đang trong quá trình làm dự án cuối cùng về đề tài typography trong nước. Để thiết kế cho tạp chí của mình, Khôi ao ước được phỏng vấn những người thiết kế dùng chữ và những người thiết kế chữ trong cộng đồng người Việt. Trải nghiệm đầu tiên của Khôi về typography Việt là qua Vietnamese Typography. Quyển sách là nguồn cảm hứng cho Khôi chọn dự án của mình. Khôi đã tìm đến tôi để trò chuyện.

Cuộc phỏng vấn dịch sang tiếng Việt

Tại sao các designer nước ngoài lại muốn thêm chữ tiếng Việt khi họ không dính líu gì đến ngôn ngữ này?

Thực sự thì khi chú thực hiện Vietnamese Typography, mục tiêu của chú không phải là các bạn thiết kế chữ. Lí do ban đầu của quyển sách là để nhấn mạnh việc các phông chữ phổ biến khi đó không hỗ trợ tiếng Việt. Dù vậy, sau khi cuốn sách được phát hành thì chú nhận ra là các bạn thiết kế chữ rất có hứng thú với việc thiết kế chữ tiếng Việt để các bộ chữ của họ có thể được sử dụng bởi nhiều người hơn. Để so sánh với các ngôn ngữ châu Á khác thì tiếng Việt sử dụng bảng chữ cái La-tinh thay vì chữ tượng hình. Việc này cho phép các nhà thiết kế có thể thiết kế chữ tiếng Việt mà không cần có hiểu biết về ngôn ngữ Việt; họ chỉ cần hiểu cách hoạt động của các dấu thanh thôi. Quyển sách từ đó đã cho họ kiến thức và sự tự tin cần thiết để thử sức với các ký tự Việt.

Luận án của chú được phát hành lần đầu vào 2015. Sau 9 năm, thị trường thiết kế chữ tại Việt Nam có lẽ đã cải thiện rất nhiều. Chú có cảm thấy quyển sách đã đóng một vai trò lớn không?

Chú thấy rất vui khi ngoài việc các bạn thiết kế ở nước ngoài gửi rất nhiều câu hỏi về kí tự Việt cho chú, những bạn designer trẻ ở Việt Nam cũng tìm hiểu về cuốn sách và coi đây là cơ hội để chính các bạn có thể thiết kế ra một bộ chữ. Giờ đây, chú liên tiếp nhìn thấy những bộ chữ hỗ trợ tiếng Việt nổi lên ở khắp nơi trên thế giới, và chú rất vui khi đã có thể đóng góp một phần nhỏ trong sự thay đổi này.

Có lẽ có khá ít các ghi chép về thiết kế tại Việt Nam. Một lí do lớn trong việc tạo ra quyển tạp chí song ngữ này chính là để thông tin về thiết kế trở nên rộng rãi hơn. Chú đã bao giờ nghĩ đến việc dịch cuốn sách sang tiếng Việt chưa?

Trước tiên, chú cũng đồng ý với việc hiện tại có ít ghi chép về thiết kế tại Việt Nam. Khi chú nghiên cứu cho Vietnamese Typography, chú đã về Việt Nam và tìm các cuốn sách về thiết kế tại Việt Nam và không tìm được gì cả. Cuối cùng thì chú phải dựa vào chính hiểu biết của mình về ngôn ngữ và chữ cái tiếng Việt để có thể hoàn thành luận án của chú. Hơn nữa, có lẽ một điểm trừ trong cuốn sách của chú chính là trong cuốn sách, chú có một danh sách các bộ chữ cỡ nhỏ; không một bộ nào trong danh sách của chú được làm bởi một designer người Việt. Bộ chữ gần nhất với mong muốn của chú có lẽ là Be Vietnam Pro bởi Lâm Bảo, tuy vậy bộ chữ là nguồn mở. Chú muốn hỗ trợ các nhà thiết kế bằng việc mua bản quyền và quảng bá các bộ chữ đó.

Về việc phiên dịch cuốn sách, chú rất thích ý tưởng này, và đã có một bạn thiết kế ngỏ lời trợ giúp trong phần phiên dịch cho chú.

Có lẽ hơi xấu hổ một xíu khi mà các bộ chữ Việt lại không được làm bởi người Việt…

Cũng không hẳn! Các designer này, họ đã thiết kế chữ cả chục năm rồi. Thực sự ngành nghề này vẫn còn rất mới tại Việt Nam, và cần thời gian để phát triển. Chú thực sự không muốn các bạn designer thiết kế ra các bộ chữ trong ngày một ngày hai đâu; một bộ chữ cần đến vài năm để thiết kế và cần rất nhiều sự kiên nhẫn. Ngược lại, có lẽ chú không biết đúng người. Có lẽ chú cũng cần đào sâu hơn và nghiên cứu, tìm tòi về những con người này.

Quá trình thiết kế chữ đòi hỏi phải test rất nhiều. Với những người không biết ngôn ngữ Việt, có lẽ khá khó để test khả năng đọc của bộ chữ; họ không có con mắt tự nhiên để có thể bắt được những lỗi nhỏ này. Liệu họ vượt qua chướng ngại vật này như thế nào?

Chú có thể kể một câu chuyện. Qua thời gian, cuốn sách đã dần trở thành một quyển hướng dẫn cho kí tự Việt, và chú dần nhận được các bộ chữ của các bạn designer trên toàn thế giới để chú có thể nhận xét và đưa ra một số chỉnh sửa. Chú sẽ lướt qua một lượt các dấu thanh, và chỉnh sửa sao cho hợp lý. Đối với người Việt, rất dễ để chúng ta có thể nhìn ra các lỗi nhỏ trong các đoạn văn bản. Một ví dụ chú có thể đưa ra là dấu hỏi; đối với các bộ chữ có chân, chú rất thích dấu hỏi giữ được phần đuôi, một chi tiết mà các bạn designer thường bỏ. Chú luôn đưa ra nhận xét này và các bạn thiết kế rất nhiệt tình trong việc sửa lại bộ chữ.

Bây giờ chú đang làm gì?

Chú vẫn là dân thiết kế web thôi. Sau từng ấy năm thì chú vẫn rất thích thiết kế web và nghệ thuật sắp chữ. Đến tận bây giờ chú vẫn thiết kế, và cũng chỉ có vậy thôi. Đương nhiên chú có các sở thích bên ngoài, như trượt tuyết chẳng hạn, nhưng công việc chính vẫn là thiết kế. Chú rất yêu các trang web và nó giúp chú có thể chia sẻ với rất nhiều người. Cho dù chính trang web cũng đã thay đổi rất nhiều, các con chữ đã giúp chú giữ được sự thích thú qua thời gian.

Liệu chú có lời khuyên nào cho các bạn trẻ muốn thử sức với các con chữ không?

Thiết kế chữ vẫn là một ngành nghề rất mới ở Việt Nam, và chú vẫn luôn thấy các bạn thiết kế tìm tòi khám phá về bộ môn này. Đây chắc chắn là một ngành nghề với rất nhiều sự mới lạ. Lời khuyên của chú có lẽ là hãy nghe theo con tim của mình, kiên nhẫn, và đặt thật nhiều câu hỏi. Cộng đồng thiết kế chữ rất thân thiện; bạn có thể hỏi bất cứ người nào, gửi bộ chữ của mình cho bất cứ ai, và nói chuyện với bất cứ ai!

Đọc bài phỏng vấn bằng tiếng Anh

Khôi Trần was wrapping up his final-year student of Bachelor of Design Studies at RMIT University Hanoi. He was working on his Capstone project, which included designing a zine about typography in Vietnam. For the content of the zine, he wished to interview a series of typographers and type designers in the Vietnamese design community. His first experience with typography in the Vietnamese setting was through my web book, which inspired his to do this project. He reached out to me for an interview.

Our Conversation

Why would foreign designers include Vietnamese in the first place if they do not have any association with the language?

To be honest, I did not think of type designers when I had the idea for Vietnamese Typography. The initial aim of the book was to highlight the problem of Vietnamese language support in typefaces. However, when the book was published, I learnt that many designers were interested in the Vietnamese diacritics to make their typefaces more accessible. In comparison to some other Asian languages, which use their own shapes to form their own writing, Vietnamese uses the Latin alphabet. This makes it so that designers wanting to design Vietnamese characters do not have to speak the language; they only have to know about the way the diacritics work. The book, thus, has given them the knowledge and confidence to take on the unique challenge of Vietnamese characters.

The thesis was originally published in 2015. Since then, the situation with Vietnamese typography has improved exponentially. Do you feel the book had a big role in this so-called ‘movement’?

It was very interesting as I was receiving enquiries about Vietnamese characters from experienced, foreign designers, I was also finding out about young Vietnamese designers looking at this as an opportunity to design their own typefaces. Since then, I have seen many Vietnamese-supported typefaces pop up, both in Vietnam and around the world, and I am very happy to play a small role in this change.

There seems to be a lack of Vietnamese design documentation. A big part of making this magazine bilingual was to make information more accessible to the Vietnamese designers. Considering your work is monumental is Vietnamese type design, have you ever thought of translating the book into Vietnamese?

First, I would agree with the fact that there is a lack of content about Vietnamese design, in Vietnamese. In fact, when I did my research for Vietnamese Typography, I made a trip to Vietnam and searched for documents about design in Vietnamese bookstores, to no avail. In the end, I had to pretty much rely on my own knowledge of the Vietnamese language in order to be able to produce the book. Moreover, one of the weak points of the book is that I have included several Vietnamese-supported text typefaces as a starting point; however, none of them are made by a Vietnamese designer. The closest thing that I can find to a text typeface was Be Vietnam Pro by Lam Bao, which is open-source; I want to help these individuals by licensing their typefaces.

On translating the book, it definitely seems like a good idea, and I have actually had one person reach out to me about offering to help with the translation.

It seems pretty ironic that the Vietnamese text typefaces are being made by foreign designers…

But no! These type designers from all over the world have been doing it for years. I think that this industry is still very young and new in Vietnam, and requires time to grow. I don’t expect people to just come up with a typeface in a day or two; it takes years to make one. It takes a lot of patience. Then again, maybe I just don’t know the right people. I guess it’s on me as well to keep digging and finding these hidden gems within the community.

The typeface design process requires a lot of testing. For someone that does not know the Vietnamese language, this seems hard to be able to test for its legibility, as they do not have the natural inclination for the writing system. How do they overcome this challenge?

For this I can tell a little story. As the book slowly became sort of a guide to Vietnamese characters, I started receiving a lot of demo typefaces from designers all over the world to review. I would go through the diacritics, pointing out things that worked and things that didn’t, and how they could improve. For us Vietnamese, it’s very easy for us to spot irregularities in between the texts. An example I can give is the hook above; in serif typefaces, I really like for the hook above to have a tail, which designers often omit. I always ask them to include the tail and they are happy to make the change.

How are you doing now?

Well, I’m a web designer. After all these years, I’m still really excited about web design and typography. I’m still doing it now. And that’s pretty much it. Of course I do have hobbies and interests along the side, like skiing and snowboarding, but I’ll keep my daytime job (haha). I absolutely love the web and it makes it so easy to make my work be available to so many people. While the web itself has changed a lot over the years, the typography has been the thing that has kept my interest for all these years.

Any advice for new, young designers looking to get into typography?

Type is still very new in Vietnam, and I see young designers exploring more and more about this industry. It is definitely an exciting career. My advice is to follow your heart, be patient, and ask questions. The type community is very friendly; you could go up to any person and ask them about type, send them typefaces to review, and talk to them!

Khôi Trần translated our conversation into Vietnamese.

No one tagged me for the Blog Questions Challenge. I took on the challenge anyway. So here we go.

Blog Questions Challenge 2025

Why did you start blogging?

I wanted to learn English, but I didn’t like the restrictions in academics setting. Blogging gave me the space to write whatever I liked. I could get as personal as I wanted. I set no expectations. Even though this is a public space, I write for myself.

What platform are you using to manage your blog and why?

WordPress because it was the easiest platform to set up at the time when blogging taking off. I liked the simplicity of the platform in the beginning. WordPress is now too damn complicated.

Have you blogged on other platforms before?

I used Greymatter briefly, but it didn’t feel right. I switched to B2 before Matt and Mike forked it and made WordPress.

How do you write your posts?

When I sit in front of my MacBook, I type straight into the WordPress Classic Editor. No, I have not switched to Gutenberg. It is too slow and too cumbersome for what I want to do: just blog. I also write in Google Docs on my iPhone like I am doing now while lying in bed then copying and pasting into WordPress later.

When do you feel most inspired to write?

When I need to kill time. I always show up to my appointments 30 to 45 minutes early so I won’t be late and I will have a bit of time to blog. I write whatever comes to mind. Whether something I had observed or how I felt at the time, I liked to put them down in words and keep them for my own records.

Do you publish immediately after writing, or do you let it simmer a bit as a draft?

I hit the publish button as soon as I get my point across. I am not writing for anyone; therefore, I don’t need to sweat the details.

What’s your favorite post on your blog?

Nothing stands out to me. I don’t go back to read what I had written. It’s just a living document for me.

Any future plans for your blog?

I redesign or re-typesetting my blog when I license a new typeface. I have no plan to migrate off WordPress anytime soon unless Matt bans the Classic Editor. Other than that, I’ll just keep banging out more posts.

Every Friday, I looked forward to reading a new edition from Manuel Moreale’s People and Blogs newsletter. I enjoyed discovering a new blog through his interview. For months, I wanted to be featured in the newsletter, but I didn’t want to suggest my own blog. A few weeks ago, I decided to do a mock interview instead. I took Manu’s questions and answered them myself. As I was about to hit the publish button on my own blog, I reached out to Manu to see if he was cool with it. To me surprise, he responded, “It’s totally fine to suggest your own blog and I’m down to feature you.” I was astounded and I was so glad that I didn’t hit that publish button. My mock interview turned into a reality. You can read the interview on People and Blogs or below, which I want to keep for posterity.

P&B: Donny Trương

This is the 75^th edition of People and Blogs, the series where I ask interesting people to talk about themselves and their blogs. Today we have Donny Trương and his blog, visualgui.com

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Let’s start from the basics: Can you introduce yourself?

My name is Donny Trương. I am a web designer. I still write HTML and CSS by hand. I haven’t used frameworks because I haven’t found the need for them.

I have a BA in digital arts & multimedia design and an MA in graphic design. For my independent study in grad school, I wrote Professional Web Typography and published it as a web book. For my final thesis, I wrote Vietnamese Typography and also published it online for free access.

Vietnamese Typography has become an essential reading for type designers who would like to support the Vietnamese language for their typefaces. The web book has also led me to become a type advisor, in which I work with type designers around the world to help them with their Vietnamese diacritics for their typefaces.

In recent years, I have become obsessed with skiing and snowboarding. I skied for four seasons and snowboarded for two. This winter, I became a snowboard instructor. I am teaching beginner group lessons. When I first learned snowboarding, I fell a lot. My goal is to help people fall less and enjoy riding more.

I live in Fairfax, Virginia with my lovely wife and our four boys. I enjoy blogging, reading, rollerblading, ice skating, skiing, and of course, snowboarding.

What’s the story behind your blog?

I started blogging in 2003 to experiment with design, share my thoughts, and improve my writing. English is my second language and I wanted to communicate better through words. When I came to the US at the age of eleven, I didn’t know a word of English and I hated writing. I couldn’t put a sentence together.

Even in my college years, I never let anyone, except for the professors, read my papers. I was afraid of being judged. When I started blogging, however, all of my fears went out the window. I didn’t worry about my grammar errors. I didn’t worry about my incomplete sentences. I didn’t care how I sounded on the page. I didn’t care who read my blog. I just wanted to write.

I appreciate the freedom of blogging. I write for no one, but myself. I grew up listening to rap music; therefore, I used lots of curse words in my early blogging. The more I write, however, the less curse words I use. I still use curse words once in a while, but only when it is necessary.

What does your creative process look like when it comes to blogging?

My process is just to write whatever comes to my mind. Whenever I have 15 to 30 minutes, I would sit down and bang out 100 to 300 words. I constantly think about topics to write about in my head. Once I sit in front of my computer, I don’t have to stare at the blank screen and the blinking cursor.

When I am out and about, I jot down my thoughts right on my phone. I write when I stand waiting in line or at the doctor’s office. I use Google Docs so I can quickly transfer my writing from my phone to my laptop.

I give myself no restrictions. I can write one line or ten paragraphs. I want to be as open and as honest as possible in my journal. I share as much as I can without getting in trouble.

Blogging is both pleasure and therapeutic for me. By writing down my thoughts, I no longer need to carry the weight in my head. Writing to release my tension has kept me blogging regularly for over 20 years.

Do you have an ideal creative environment? Do you believe the physical space influences your creativity?

Blogging for myself doesn’t require any creativity. I just need to get the words from my head to the page. I write when I am bored. Even when I am driving on the road for long trips, I write in my head. It makes the driving go faster. Once I have access to my phone or my laptop, I would write down what I was writing in my head; therefore, I don’t necessarily need a physical space. I can write and hit publish anywhere and any time on my phone.

A question for the techie readers: Can you run us through your tech stack?

My blog is powered by WordPress. I design my own theme with just three files: index.php, screenshot.png, and style.css. A modern WordPress theme these days has hundreds of files. I just checked WordPress’s default Twentytwentyfive and it has 253 files. How insane is that?

I redesign and realign my blog several times a year. When I licensed a new typeface, I would want to use it first on my blog. When I found inspiration or got bored with thee current design, I would change it. Although I changed the look and feel quite often, the underneath blogging structure hadn’t changed much since the beginning. If I were forced to move over to Gutenberg, I would be screwed. I wouldn’t know how to create a modern theme.

For hosting, I use a Droplet from DigitalOcean. I use Cloudflare for SSL, basic caching, and security measures.

Given your experience, if you were to start a blog today, would you do anything differently?

WordPress has served me well over 20 years. It has grown significantly as a solid CMS over the years, but I still use it as a blogging platform.

I am deeply concerned about the controversies lately between WordPress and another premium WordPress hosting company. The WordPress founder is going bananas. I am not sure about the future of WordPress.

If I have to do it all over today, I don’t know where to start. I don’t know what platform to choose. I know other CMSes, but they are not a blogging tool out of the box like WordPress.

Financial question: How much does it cost to run your blog? Is it just a cost, or does it generate revenue?

I pay about $250 a year for hosting and domain registration. My blog does not generate any revenue. I tried ads. They didn’t work and I found them distracting the reading experience. I tried custom banner ads, in which I would work with the clients to design them to fit with my design and their message. They didn’t work out.

I am asking for support from readers and that isn’t working either. My blog remains my own hobby.

Time for some recommendations: Any blog you think is worth checking out? And who do you think I should interview next?

Here’s my blogroll. You should interview Mandy Brown next.

Final question: Is there anything you want to share with us?

Check out donnytruong.com. It’s my portfolio site. You can see my works there.

This was the 75^th edition of People and Blogs. Hope you enjoyed this interview with Donny. Make sure to follow his blog (RSS) and get in touch with him if you have any questions.

Sheila Ngọc Phạm wrote a long piece on “The Past is the Future” of the Vietnamese writing language for Disegno. She talked to me about Vietnamese Typography. Here’s an excerpt from our conversation:

In response to Nguyễn’s New York Times footnote, designer Donny Trương, who is based in Arlington, Virginia, reformatted her article to show it is possible to include the full set of Vietnamese diacritics. To achieve this, he used the typefaces Kaius, Job Clarendon and Change, designed respectively by Lisa Fischbach, David Jonathan Ross and Bethany Heck, and Alessio Leonardi. The reformatted version of Nguyễn’s piece is published in Trương’s ebook Vietnamese Typography (2015), which is free to read and regularly updated, and features an ever-growing ‘Samples’ section. Nguyễn’s article now looks and reads as it should.

Vietnamese Typography was originally written as Trương’s Master’s thesis at George Mason University School of the Arts, and was born out of the frustration he felt about the lack of Vietnamese diacritics in modern typefaces. It has since become an invaluable resource, particularly for non-Vietnamese type designers interested in designing typefaces that support Vietnamese, which has the most diacritics of any language with Romanised script. These diacritics are not just marks above one letter, as is the case with common diacritics in European languages (e.g. é, à, ö); in Vietnamese, the complexity is due to the way in which diacritics are also stacked on top of each other (e.g. ổ, ề). There is also the diacritic that appears below letters, as you can see in my name, and with letters that have existing diacritics (e.g. ậ, ệ). In his book, Trương outlines some of the design challenges this presents: “The marks must be consistent in the entire font system to create uninterrupted flow of text. The strokes of the marks have to work well with the base letters to help readers determine the meaning of words. They must not get in the way of the base letter and collide with adjacent letters. Considering balance, harmony, space, position, placement, contrast, size, and weight, designers must overcome each challenge to create a successful typeface for Vietnamese.”

Update: The entire article is now available online (December 16, 2024).

Dipika Kohli:

I enjoyed a fun interview Q&A with Donny Truong, for my e-mag S P A C E. The issue it’s published in is S P A C E | ‘Talking Type.’

Like all of my stories in S P A C E, it started with a small curiosity, and a couple of questions, over email. Sometimes people don’t reply so a lot of the beginnings of stories can end here. But occasionally, you get a few replies and then you start a conversation that goes back, and forth, and then back again. This is jazzy, improvisational, and fun, when it’s at its best (at least I think so). But you can only get to the heart of a story when you call, talk, listen, connect and find that magic moment. Somewhere in there. And we did. And it’s the story. And the story is also online. You can read it in full at Donny’s site.

Thanks to everyone who has believed in me and my work. I appreciate it.

Our Conversation

Really cool work you are doing with helping people understand the rules about how to design Vietnamese type. I got ‘stuck’ in Vietnam for 2 years, so now I speak and understand a tiny bit. While I was there I got into Vietnamese language and type. Tell me about your website. What made you decide to start it?

Vietnamese Typography was my final thesis for my MA in graphic design at George Mason University School of Arts. I decided to focus on Vietnamese diacritics because I found the lack of support for the Vietnamese language in type design. My goal was to help expand and enrich Vietnamese typography.

We interviewed a few typeface designers before. They told us about the attention to detail and the personality type that usually gets into that kind of work. Do you have some comment about what it takes to ‘get it right?’

Since I am not a type designer, I don’t have an answer to this question. From my perspective, however, type designers need to understand the importance of diacritics to get it right. The goal for my book is to help them understand everything they need to know to design Vietnamese diacritics.

Can you elaborate with 1 or 2 concrete examples, maybe in which people were helped directly by the resources you have made? What changed as a result of your putting the effort into creating the site, and your book, that you can comment about?

As a web designer who has a passion for typography, I didn’t have too many options when typesetting in Vietnamese. Many typefaces didn’t equip with Vietnamese diacritics. Back in 2014, when I started doing research for Vietnamese Typography, Google Fonts had about half a dozen out of thousands of fonts that supported Vietnamese. Fortunately, Google Fonts has increased support for Vietnamese drastically over the years.

After publishing my book online, I have heard from type designers around the world testifying how Vietnamese Typography had gave them the understanding of the Vietnamese language as well as the confidence to expand their typefaces with Vietnamese diacritics. In addition, type designers have reached out to me to review their typefaces to make sure their diacritics were properly designed for Vietnamese readers. It has been such a pleasure for me to play a small role in their works. Nowadays, I am happy to see many new typefaces released with Vietnamese support.

I have not read your book, but your website came to us through a referral as we were designing a typeface for someone here.

To clarify, my book is my website. If you read my website, you read my book. For my final thesis, I had a printed version and the website. For the second edition, however, I decided to focus primarily on the website because I wanted to continue to update it with new typeface recommendations and examples. I can’t do those things in a printed book.

Still seeking other people who can comment on Vietnamese-language typeface design. I’ll reach out to 1-2 whose work you admire, if you can point me to some people doing amazing work.

I have many type designers who I admired and worked with on Vietnamese diacritics. Off the top of my head, here are the designers doing amazing work and caring deeply about Vietnamese support:

• David Jonathan Ross (DJR)
• Stephen Nixon (Arrow Type)
• Veronika Burian & José Scaglione (TypeTogether)

I checked out the designers’ sites and listened to some youtube stuff. I think it’s a unique sphere: typeface designers. What’s your favorite typeface?

As a digital designer and typographer, I choose typefaces that are suitable for each project. Understanding the background as well as the intention behind the typefaces help me make the right choices. Having said that, I always have a soft spot for serif text faces. For example, I am loving Warbler Text, designed by David Jonathan Ross.

What are a few sets that you personally advised or worked on? What were the challenges along the way, and how did you overcome them?

I recently worked with TypeTogether, particularly with Veronika Burian, on Aneto. The first draft she sent me, the diacritical marks were good, but they were not cohesive and the hook above was truncated. I made a few suggestions and emphasized the importance of the bottom tail on the hook above for readability. She not only nailed it in the updated version, but also designed an excellent hook with the tail. I was so happy.

Cascadia Code, I think, is how we found you. Care to comment?

Yes, Cascadia Code rings the bell. In October 2019, Aaron Bell reached out to me to review Vietnamese diacritical marks for it. I didn’t know Microsoft had commissioned it until you brought it up. It is a fun, legible monospaced font for coding with excellent Vietnamese diacritics.

La Salle, did you study in Singapore? Just reviewing your website more now today.

No, I did not study in Singapore. I attended La Salle University in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania for my undergrad.

I’d love to hear more from you about the way you transitioned to the working life in the United States and how it’s been for you for 30 years there. Reason being, it feels like when I was in VN that people seemed to view life in the US as ‘making it’ and ‘striking big’ and ‘getting rich.’ The reality versus the perception—any comments? You can reply in Vietnamese or English or both.

Tôi đến Hoa Kỳ lúc mười một tuổi. Tôi được đi học và làm việc trong nước Mỹ. Sự khác biệt trong công việc ở đây với Việt Nam là cơ hội và điều kiện, nhất là những ngành nghề có liên quan đến thiết kế trên mạng. Dĩ nhiên so sánh mức lương ở đây với Việt Nam thì bên đây cao hơn, nhưng lối sống ở đây cũng cao hơn. Muốn làm giàu cũng không phải dễ dàng như những lời đồn đãi ở trong nước. Ở đâu cũng phải đi làm để kiếm sống qua ngày. Tuy nhiên, có trình độ và học vấn thì làm những công việc đỡ mệt nhọc hơn đi làm lao động.

Tôi rất muốn nghe ý kiến của bạn về nó: xã hội, bản thân và ‘divergent thinking’, ‘creative thinking’ ở Việt Nam. Sẽ rất hữu ích cho tôi hiểu. Tôi muốn hiểu hơn. Điều khó khăn nhất đối với tôi ở Việt Nam (khi làm bất cứ điều gì mới và khác biệt) là những ức chế của xã hội, của các khối. Không có nhiều sự quan tâm và thậm chí là thù địch với những ý tưởng mới. Nhưng, tôi đã kết bạn với những người có thể đánh giá cao: một cách mới.

Tôi xa quê hương trên 30 năm nên không nắm rõ về tình hình trong nước. Riêng cá nhân tôi sống ở Hoa Kỳ cũng đã chứng kiến những thành phần khác nhau. Có người luôn sẵn sàng đón nhận ý tưởng mới và cũng có người không muốn đổi mới. Tôi nghĩ ở xã hội nào cũng thế.

Bạn là ai?

Tôi là người chồng, người cha, người thiết kế, và người đam mê những môn trượt như trượt tuyết (skiing), trượt trượt patin (rollerblading), trượt băng (ice skating) và sắp học thêm trượt ván (snowboarding).

Làm thế nào để bạn tìm được chính mình?

Bất cứ ở đâu trên thế giới hoặc chính trên đất Mỹ, nơi tôi đã sống hơn 30 năm, chỉ cần đọc chữ Việt là tôi tìm được chính mình. Như lời của cố nhạc sĩ Phạm Duy đã viết: “Tôi yêu tiếng nước tôi từ khi mới ra đời, người ơi / Mẹ hiền ru những câu xa vời / À à ơi ! Tiếng ru muôn đời”. Việt Nam vẫn là nguồn gốc, quê hương và tuổi thơ của tôi.

Bạn có chấp nhận mình ở hiện tại không, nếu có bạn có thể kể về chặng đường bạn chấp nhận mình ở hiện tại.

Tôi không chấp nhận mình ở hiện tại. Vì nếu như có, tôi sẽ bị dậm chân tại chỗ. Tôi luôn có những khía cạnh để cải tiến bản thân. Chẳng hạn như làm người chồng tốt hơn, người cha dễ dãi hơn, người thiết kế kỹ thuật cao hơn, và người trượt tuyết tiến bộ hơn. Dĩ nhiên cái hại trong sự không chấp nhận hiện tại của mình là không cho phép mình được cuộc sống nhẹ nhàng thoải mái. Hy vọng một ngày nào đó tôi sẽ chấp nhận mình ở hiện tại để có một cuộc sống an nhàn.

Jazz. I like it too. Tell me about how you got into it? Does it inform your work in some way today?

I got into jazz after overhearing Vietnamese ballads arranged in jazzy style. Unlike the bolero-saturated ballads, in which many Vietnamese songs were produced, jazz gave Vietnamese music a new sound. The swing, the blues, and the bossa-nova rhythm piqued my curiosity in jazz and I wanted to learn more. I worked at Vassar College at the time and I went to the music library to check out every jazz album I could get my hands on. One of the albums I came across was Miles Davis’s Kind of Blue and I instantly fell in love with jazz. I even audited a jazz history class at Vassar and my appreciation for improvised music grew deeper.

Yes, jazz has definitely informed my design work to this day. Like jazz improvisation, I let go of all the rules I had learned in school and just let my design be free from restrictions. If you are interested in finding out more about how jazz has influenced my work, read my short essay titled, “Designing With Miles.”

Crossing culture and identity are hot topics these days. Please share your opinion about what ‘identity’ means to you.

I am Vietnamese American. I was born in Vietnam but have lived most of my life in America. I appreciate both cultures and languages. They define who I am. That’s the broadest sense of what identity means to me.

How did it feel to interview in HCMC for the web design job? (I would love to hear you tell this story in your own words.)

Interviewing for a web design job in HCMC was demoralizing. I am not sure if the interview process has changed now, but in the early 2000s, it took an entire day. I can’t recall how many positions they were hiring for, but about 30 applicants had to sit in a classroom and we were tested for both English and Vietnamese in the morning session. Since I did the English portion so quickly, another applicant asked me if I came from America. When I nodded, he started giggling and told others that I went all the way from America to apply for a web design job in HCMC. In the afternoon session, we had to design webpages. I spent hours making webpages for free. I went through the entire process, but I never got a call back.

I can relate to your sense of being ‘between worlds.’ I think it is hard to ‘fit in’ on either side. Can you elaborate a bit, if you have any examples of something that you experienced, it will illustrate the point.

I don’t fit in on either side, maybe it has to do with my own personality. I don’t feel as if I can’t find common interests. For example, I am not into football; therefore, I can’t be part of that American culture. On the flip side, I love skiing and snowboarding, but most of my Vietnamese-American friends don’t like the cold.

But I feel more and more we all have multiple identities and they aren’t always drawn on ‘culture’ lines. Maybe you can tell me what you think about that.

I suppose politics and religions aren’t drawn on cultural lines, but they can open up different kinds of worms. I steer away from these two as well because they can easily break relationships even within my own family. I find that being a parent, I can connect better with other parents. Kids are always non-controversial.

Do you have any regrets? What would you do differently, if you could?

Yes, I have tons of regrets. I shouldn’t have done that. I shouldn’t have said that. I should have treated that person better. I used to live with regrets. As I am getting older, however, I realize that I cannot change my regrets and I don’t have too much time left to regret. I just have to leave my regrets behind in order to move forward.

Please tell us the typeface designer’s website you had mentioned? I will give a shout out to him. The person whom you helped and encouraged? I would love to hear you share your story in your own words, about how you felt talking to him about ‘making it’ in a creative field. It is a good example for others, I think, who I know in VN who might be facing similar difficulties. (Society vs. Me, etc. Quarter life angst, too)

Here’s his website. His name is Nguyễn Quang Khải. He reached out to me after having read Vietnamese Typography. In our conversation, he shared that his dream is to become a type designer. His parents worried that he can’t support himself as someone who makes letters. Doctor, lawyer, engineer are more realistic professions. He also shared that his first typeface, Theccoa, has not gained any traction. I encouraged him to keep pushing forward. No type designers had succeeded with their first typeface. Designing types requires experience and patience. Once he gets past the first few typefaces, he will make it and he will also prove to his parents that type design is a legit profession.

Is there any question I did not ask, that you wish I had? Tell me more.

I don’t have anything to add, but I want to thank you for taking your time to talk to me about work, life, and death. I appreciate our phone conversation as well as our email exchanges. I wish you all the best with everything you do and I hope we will cross paths in the future.

About Dipika Kohli

Dipika Kohli is the founder and CEO of Design Kompany. She founded it in Seattle in 2006. Before this, she was in newspapers as a reporter and editor in that city and, also, southwest Ireland.

Thế cơ À:

Mở đầu cho chuỗi phỏng vấn về việc xây dựng Hệ thống Từ vựng tiếng Việt cho chủ đề typography tại Việt Nam, Thế cơ À đã may mắn kết nối được với chú Donny Trương, tác giả của cuốn sách Vietnamese Typography.

Vốn là luận văn thạc sĩ chuyên ngành thiết kế đồ họa của chú tại trường đại học George Mason University, Vietnamese Typography được xuất bản vào tháng 11 năm 2015. Cuốn sách được ra mắt dưới định dạng website này nhanh chóng trở thành một bản định hướng thiết yếu cho nhiều nhà thiết kế kiểu chữ trong việc thiết kế chữ Việt.

Cuốn sách giúp nhiều người thực hành typography trên thế giới hiểu được những nét độc đáo của tạo hình dấu tiếng Việt kể cả khi họ không nói hoặc viết ngôn ngữ đó. Nhờ đó, họ tự tin hơn trong việc thiết kế các dấu phụ, đóng vai trò quan trọng đối với tính dễ nhận diện (legibility) và tính dễ đọc (readability) của tiếng Việt.

Với những trải nghiệm ấy, hãy cùng chúng mình tìm hiểu thêm về quan điểm của chú về chủ đề này ngay nào.

Phần 1: Bối cảnh giao tiếp: không gian, thời gian, đối tượng giao tiếp

1. Hiện tại, chú có đang phải thường xuyên trao đổi về các chủ đề typography không? Nếu có thì là khi nào, với ai và ở đâu?

Chú vẫn thường xuyên trao đổi về chủ đề nghệ thuật chữ hằng ngày trong công việc và trong những dự án cá nhân. Từ khi sách được phát hành, chú tham khảo với những nhà thiết kế chữ để tư vấn họ về chữ Việt. Chú giúp họ trong việc đặt những con dấu sao cho người Việt dễ đọc.

Qua câu trả lời của chú, chúng cháu cũng thấy chú đã chuyển ngữ typography thành nghệ thuật ngữ. Chú có thể giải thích thêm về cách gọi này không?

Khi viết hay nói tiếng Việt, chú cố gắng chỉ dùng chữ Việt nếu không cần đưa vào chữ Anh. Lúc viết sách, chú đã nghiên cứu rất nhiều để dịch sang tiếng Việt cho đúng nghĩa và cuối cùng chú đã chọn “Nghệ thuật chữ Việt”.

3. Khi biên soạn cuốn sách Vietnamese Typography hay thực hiện các nghiên cứu khác, chú thường tham khảo tài liệu từ đâu? Có tài liệu tiếng Việt nào đáng chú ý không? Trước đây, đã có nhiều nghiên cứu, thảo luận về chủ đề này chưa?

Lúc bắt tay vào luận án Vietnamese Typography, chú gặp nhiều khó khăn trong việc tìm kiếm tài liệu. Chú sinh sống ở Mỹ nên việc tham khảo sách vở tiếng Việt càng hiếm hoi. Chú có liên lạc với giáo sư Ngô Thanh Nhàn và giáo sư John D. Phan, nhưng cả hai cũng không cung cấp tài liệu gì về chữ Việt. Không biết phải tham khảo với ai nên chú viết một đôi lời trên blog cá nhân của mình. Không bao lâu thì nhận được thư anh Phạm Đam Ca gửi động viên, giải thích, và góp ý một vài tài liệu như Dictionarium Annamiticum Lusitanum et Latinum của Alexandre de Rhodes phát hành vào năm 1651. Đến bây giờ chú vẫn chưa tìm thấy tài liệu về chủ đề này trong tiếng Việt. Còn những phần tài liệu đã được tham khảo qua tiếng Anh, chú ghi lại ở cuối sách.

4. Trong lúc tư vấn/đào tạo, chú trao đổi với khách hàng/đối tác như thế nào về chủ đề này? Có thuận lợi/khó khăn gì về giao tiếp không? Nếu có khó khăn thì chú giải quyết như thế nào?

Trong quá trình tư vấn về chữ Việt thì không gặp khó khăn gì vì những nhà thiết kế chữ họ rất tin tưởng chú. Thứ nhất, chú là người Việt đọc được tiếng Việt. Thứ hai, chú đã nghiên cứu và trau dồi rất nhiều về đề tài này khi làm luận án của mình.

Phần 2: Từ vựng sử dụng: tiếng Anh hay tiếng Việt, thuận lợi/khó khăn/giải pháp

5. Khi phải viết hay nói về chủ đề này, cần tới các thuật ngữ chuyên môn thì chú sẽ sử dụng ngôn ngữ nào? Khó khăn/thuận lợi khi cần trao đổi về chủ đề tại Việt Nam?

Hiện tại chú chỉ dùng Anh ngữ vì chú chỉ làm việc với những nhà thiết kế người nước ngoài. Chú chưa trao đổi về chủ đề này tại Việt Nam nhưng chú nghĩ sẽ không gặp nhiều khó khăn lắm vì những bạn trẻ ở Việt Nam bây giờ rất giỏi Anh ngữ.

6. Vậy có phải là những bạn không thạo tiếng Anh sẽ gặp khó khăn trong việc tìm hiểu typography? Tại sao lại như vậy?

Ý của chú là những bạn trẻ bây giờ giỏi tiếng Anh nên cũng không gặp khó khăn nhiều. Theo chú thì việc tìm hiểu về nghệ thuật sắp đặt chữ không đơn giản. Nó đòi hỏi sự đam mê và tỉ mỉ. Cho dù người rành hay không rành tiếng Anh cũng phải bỏ công ra học những từ vựng của nó. Khó khăn hay không tùy theo sự nhẫn nại của mỗi người.

Lúc mới tìm hiểu và học hỏi về nghệ thuật sắp đặt chữ, chú đọc đi đọc lại The Elements of Typographic Style của ông Robert Bringhurst đến bốn hoặc năm lần mới bắc đầu hiểu được những từ vựng ông dùng. Một khi đã hiểu rồi thì chú muốn đọc thêm nữa. Chú làm việc cho trường George Mason University và chú đã đọc gần hết những quyển sách về nghệ thuật chữ trong thư viện. Chú cũng sưu tầm cho mình một bộ sách về đề tài này.

Phần 3: Quan điểm về việc xây dựng hệ thống từ vựng tiếng Việt cho chủ đề Typography tại Việt Nam

7. Quan điểm của chú về việc xây dựng hệ thống từ vựng cho chủ đề Typography: đánh giá hiện trạng/xu hướng sử dụng ngôn ngữ hiện tại; sự cần thiết của việc thống nhất hệ thống thuật ngữ này; đề xuất giải pháp; mong muốn tương lai?

Theo quan điểm của chú việc xây dựng hệ thống từ vựng cho nghệ thuật chữ Việt rất quan trọng và cần thiết. Chú rất muốn chuyển ngữ Vietnamese Typography qua tiếng Việt nhưng vẫn chưa có thời gian và điều kiện.

Thế cơ À:

Thế cơ À xin được gửi lời cảm ơn trân trọng và thân mến nhất tới chú Donny Trương vì đã dành thời gian chia sẻ những điều quý giá này tới cộng đồng. Để lan rộng hơn giá trị này, mọi người có thể ghé thăm website Vietnamese Typography để nghiên cứu hoặc ủng hộ cho dự án. Việc phỏng vấn và khảo sát cộng đồng sẽ vẫn luôn diễn ra thường xuyên và song song với các hoạt động đăng bài của chúng mình. Sau cùng, điều chúng mình muốn làm là kích thích quá trình trao đổi tri thức, nhận thức giữa người hiểu với người chưa hiểu, người đi trước với người đi sau vài bước, người biết với người biết ít hơn chút. Vì chúng mình tin đối thoại cộng đồng là cách nhanh nhất để dân chủ hóa trí thức.

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Our Conversation

I would like to start by asking you to tell us a bit about your background and how design started to become part of your life?

I was born in Mỹ Tho. I left Việt Nam with my family after finishing fifth grade. When I came to America, I realized it was a whole new world for me. The culture, the people, and especially the language, were so different. I did not speak a word of English. I struggled to learn English, even when I entered college many years later. As a result, I chose design to let my work speak for me.

I did not understand much about design. I thought I could just place text and image together to create a design, and yet, my ignorance for design opened up a new door for me. I was not afraid to put out anything. I didn’t know anything about design criticism, which gave me the confidence to enter the design world.

I was drawn into Macromedia Flash because I could combine motion, sound, image, and text. I spent a ridiculous amount of time learning and experimenting with Flash. I made a motion graphic piece in Flash using images of Việt Nam to accompany a song called “Bonjour Vietnam” performed by the Vietnamese-Belgian Singer Phạm Quỳnh Anh. The piece went viral for a period of time. My career took another turn when I switched from multimedia to web, but that was how I got started with design.

What motivated you to write a book on Vietnamese typography?

I wrote Vietnamese Typography as my final thesis for my MA in graphic design. The motivation came out of my frustration with the lack of Vietnamese diacritics in typography. Being a native Vietnamese reader, I know the crucial role of diacritics in shaping the reading experience. Without diacritics, words can have completely different meanings in Vietnamese.

When I began my MA program, the first class I took was advanced typography. In one of our projects, we were assigned to redesign a restaurant menu. When I presented to my professor the menus I had collected, my jaw dropped when he read out loud a Vietnamese noodle house named, “La Cây Chợ Lớn.” Because he read “Chợ Lớn” without diacritics, his words came out so wrong and so vulgar. When it came time for me to do my research for my final thesis, I knew I wanted to introduce proper Vietnamese diacritics to non-Vietnamese audiences, specifically to the type design community.

Do you have any typography or graphic design book that has been an inspiration for your work?

From theory to history and readability to legibility, I spent a tremendous amount of time reading books on typography including Robert Bringhurst’s The Elements of Typography, Karen Chang’s Designing Type, and Sofie Beier’s Reading Letters. You can see my collection of books on typography on my blog.

One of the things I admire in your book is your ability to go beyond the technical aspects of typography, introducing relevant information about the Vietnamese language in a concise and interesting way. Did you have any particular audience in mind when you were writing your book?

Thank you! I am glad that you’ve found the information interesting. As I began to do my research for the book, it became clear that none-Vietnamese type designers were my target audience. Designing for a language that they don’t know can be intimidating. Fortunately, the Vietnamese writing system is based on the Latin alphabet; therefore, it should not be too hard for them to pick up. I wanted to make the information as concise and as approachable as possible so they can feel confidence in designing Vietnamese diacritics. I wanted to give them the basic knowledge that we have when we first learn our Vietnamese alphabet, especially with the emphasis on modified letters and tone marks.

The Vietnamese language has been through radical transformations. The romanization of the Vietnamese writing system comes from the same roots of my mother tongue, Portuguese. When you were writing about the history of the Vietnamese language, did you discover any interesting things that you didn’t know before writing the book?

I must confess that I took our language for granted before writing this book; therefore, researching for the history chapter led me to fascinating discoveries. I knew that Alexandre de Rhodes was credited for the romanization of the Vietnamese writing system, but I didn’t realize the crucial role of Vietnamese scholars, such as Lương Văn Can, Nguyễn Quyền, Dương Bá Trạc, Nguyễn Văn Vĩnh, Trương Vĩnh Ký, Phạm Quỳnh, Nhất Linh, Khái Hưng, Hoàng Đạo, Thạch Lam, Tú Mỡ, Thế Lữ, and Xuân Diệu, whose contributions had made our modern writing system simple yet articulate. I had read Xuân Diệu’s poems over the years, but I had no idea that he played a role in advocating for Việt ngữ.

In your book you comment on possible challenges faced by type designers when considering diacritical marks, which the Vietnamese language is rich of. What do you think are the most common mistakes typographers make when designing for the Vietnamese language?

The most common mistake I have seen typographers make when designing for the Vietnamese language is that they don’t even realize the typefaces they set don’t support Vietnamese. When that happens, software programs or web browsers substitute letters with diacritics with a different font. As a result, you can see a strange mix of characters. When I was writing my book, I spotted many of these mistakes on Medium.com. I haven’t read much on Medium these days; therefore, I am not sure if that has been resolved. I even spotted printed banners at Eden Center, a Vietnamese-American strip mall in Virginia, that were set in scripted fonts, but letters with diacritics are set in a sans serif. They were jarring and yet the banners were printed and displayed on stores’ windows.

Since you wrote your first edition in 2015 have you seen more type designers concerned with the requirements needed for Vietnamese language?

After my book was published online in 2015, I have heard from many type designers around the world showing their interest in including Vietnamese diacritics. They have reached out to me to review their typefaces to make sure the diacritical marks they designed feel natural to Vietnamese readers. I have been glad to help in that capacity.

As a lecturer I often see my students struggling in designing in Vietnamese, some include diacritics marks by hand, but most of them will choose to design with English content instead, as there are more options of typeface available. How do you think we can get more type designers on our side, designing for the Vietnamese language?

Getting type designers on our side was the primary goal for my book. It was the reason I chose to put the entire book on the web for free so it can be accessed anywhere in the world. I have received messages from type designers from different countries thanking me for the resource to help them understand the Vietnamese writing system. Although we have a long way to go, I am pleased to see more and more typefaces released with Vietnamese support.

I understand your students’ struggles. I was in the same boat when I was doing my MA program. If they see typefaces that they want to use, they should contact the designers to see if they are willing to expand their typefaces to support Vietnamese. If the designers get enough demands for Vietnamese support, I am sure they will consider expanding their typefaces.

As for my personal use, I have made a commitment to license only typefaces with Vietnamese support.

Under the ‘type recommendation’ session of your book you present us with a good variety of typefaces designed for the Vietnamese language, which is a great resource for Vietnamese graphic designers. Nevertheless there is a lack of Vietnamese type designers on your list, why do you think it is so difficult to find more Vietnamese type designers?

When I did my research for my book, I only found one Vietnamese type designer and his name is Phạm Đam Ca. He provided insightful information for my book. Since then, I came across only a few more. I am sure there are more Vietnamese type designers I have not heard of. Because my book is published on the web, I can update the recommendation section with new typefaces from time to time. I would love to showcase works designed by Vietnamese designers in the near future. If you know any, please send them my way.

In your opinion, how can we get more Vietnamese people interested in typography?

Through education, like what you are doing with Type Ơi. We need to understand and appreciate the value of typography. We need to learn and to invest in new typefaces rather than to limit ourselves with a handful of fonts that come with our computer. Typography gives our design a voice if we use it effectively. Most of the time, text is all we have and using typography can make or break our design.

What is your perception of graphic design and typeface design in Vietnam?

Unfortunately, I don’t know much about graphic design and typeface design in Việt Nam since I have been living abroad for most of my life. I would love to learn more from you since you are living and working in Việt Nam.

What do you like to see more in terms of Vietnamese graphic design and type design in the future?

I would like to see bolder and stronger use of typography in Vietnamese graphic design. I would like to see more variety in typefaces and less script fonts for everything. I would like to see richer typefaces rather than using default system fonts for Vietnamese websites and online publications. Most importantly, I would love to see more Vietnamese designers entering the type design industry. Type design is the future in the Vietnamese design community.

Do you think living abroad has changed your perception of what typography is or can be?

Absolutely. It was my design education and working experience in the U.S. that gave me a different perspective on designing with type. When I first started in design, I didn’t think much about typography, partly because I only had a handful of fonts to work with for designing webpages, until I worked at Vassar College with a few talented designers who had mastered the use of typography. I learned so much from them and continued to hone it on my own until today.

Often designers will have a selection of typefaces they will use constantly, specially the ones used for body text, do you have a favorite typeface that you use in your projects from time to time?

As a book lover, I have a soft spot for serif text faces. Fern, designed by David Jonathan Ross, is one of my personal favorites for body text. Initially, Fern didn’t have Vietnamese diacritics; therefore, I reached out to David to see if he was willing to draw them. We came to a mutual agreement that I would advise him on Vietnamese diacritics and in return he would license me his typeface. It was a fruitful collaboration. I ended up using Fern for the body copy of Vietnamese Typography.

Finally, are there any other projects coming soon?

I don’t have any personal or passion projects at the moment, but you can follow my blog at visualgui.com to see what I am up to.

Back in February, Jim Van Meer interviewed me for his MFA thesis in graphic design. In his opening statement, Jim writes:

I am interviewing subject matter experts in a variety of fields that either touch upon design or that design touches upon. The premise of my thesis is that the graphic design profession has changed drastically over the past 30 years, and that modern day (and future) graphic designers no longer concentrate solely on combining typography, images, and composition to produce a result. My argument is that graphic design is a misnomer for what a designer accomplishes, what they must know, and how they need to be considered by society and the business community. I contend that huge waves of technological and social change around the world have changed the way we must approach the design profession, and that New Design (the term I have concocted for what I am seeing) is the pathway for multi-disciplined individuals to pursue. My thesis is not an argument for or against new media or new methodologies. Rather, it is a multi-pronged question I seek to prove or disprove—if the New Designer is a hybrid of multiple avocations and is at the foundation of education, business, and technical and social change, where did the profession evolve from and what changed, where is the profession now, where is it going, and how can it get there successfully?

My Conversation With Jim Van Meer

As the web has matured, so has web typography. Do you find that the current state of web typography is lacking in any respects, and if so, what might they be?

Even though the web has been around for almost thirty years, typography on the web only takes off in the past six or seven years. In the current state of web typography, the support for OpenType features such as ligatures, kerning, and contextual alternates has not been fully implemented in all the major browsers. In addition, font files need better optimization to support languages beyond Latin and better mechanism to delivery multiple weights and styles.

Do you believe that web-based typography should emulate print typography? If yes, why? If not, why is that?

Yes and no. The foundation of typography such as legibility, readability, and combining typefaces has been tested and researched for many centuries; therefore, web-based typography should emulate print in those regards. In contrast, the control of typography in print should not emulate on the web. With the increase of digital devices coming into the market, designers have no control of screen sizes; therefore, they need to let go of the notion that their design and typography can be controlled. The need to embrace the fluidity of the web instead.

What are the top ten items web designers and developers need to be aware of in regards to web typography. Please explain each point.

1. Performance: Designers must make performance their top priority. Only use fonts they need. Start with roman and italic. Add a bold weight, but maybe not a bold italic if they are not going to use it. The fewer fonts they use, the faster the site will load. The challenge is to strike the balance between the number of font styles and performance.
Context: Understanding the context, in which the designers will set the text in, is an important consideration. The type they selected needs to work naturally with their design and content. To provide a consistent reading experience, designers need to choose a typeface that could work well in different contexts and devices.
2. Comfortable measure for reading: When setting body copy, designers need to consider readability. Long lines of text make scanning more difficult. Readers’ eyes have to travel far to reach the end of the line. As a result, they may have trouble locating the start of the next line.
3. X-height: Generous x-height tends to read better on screen. The ideal lowercase letters should be just tall enough to be harmonious with their uppercase partners.
4. Open Apertures: The opening gaps found in certain letters such as c, e, and s, aid readers to decipher the letters. For legibility, designers need to pay attention to the letter’s apertures and counters.
5. Even Spacing: Well-designed typefaces for the web should have even letter-spacing to establish a steady rhythm for reading. Even spacing speeds up the reading process. Readers can pick out the shapes quicker if the spacing is well balanced.
6. Clear Terminals: In long-form text, letters with clear terminals (distinguishable shapes of ball, beak, or teardrop) are easier to spot; therefore, they are more readable than letters with lacking terminals.
7. Distinguishable Ascenders and Descenders: Ascenders refer to the strokes that extend above the mean line and descenders refer to the strokes that extend below the baseline. The more distinguishable the ascenders and descenders are, the more legible the letters.
8. Contrast: Referring to the thick and thin strokes of a letter, typefaces with high contrast like Didot and Bodoni work well at larger sizes but not for running text. Geometric typefaces like Arial and Helvetica can also result in a similar poor reading experience, as they have very little contrast. The uniform letter shapes in these fonts make long-form reading dull and tiresome. For reading text, choose typefaces with medium to low contrast.
9. Embrace FOUT: Flash of unstyled text (FOUT) refers to the method of displaying fallback fonts first them switching to custom fonts once the assets are loaded. Although FOUT could be glaring, it allows users to read the text immediately. Designers need to embrace FOUT and make the experience less jarring by matching the fallback fonts with the custom fonts as closely as they can.

What do you think the future holds for web typography in general, and web typography in responsive design specifically? What do designers need to be aware of? Please explain.

Web typography will continue to get better support in browsers. Designers should keep themselves up-to-date with CSS, particular the rules that apply to fonts. Sites like stateofwebtype.com, caniuse.com and the CSS reference on MDN are great resources to stay current with web typography.

What are your views on CSS3 and how much knowledge of it do designers need to function at an acceptable level in the digital design workplace? Please explain.

CSS is a powerful tool for design and it is simple and easy to learn. With enough knowledge of CSS, designers can create and revise their websites quicker than tools like Photoshop and Sketch. Designing a website using HTML and CSS feels much more natural than creating mockups in Photoshop or Sketch, especially with responsive design. Designers need to learn as much CSS as they can to function in the digital design space.

Should designers know how to code, and if so, how much knowledge of code do they need to have? Please explain why.

Yes, designers must know how to code. They must be proficient in HTML and CSS to communicate and collaborate with front-end developers. In addition, knowing possibilities and limitations of what the browsers can do help designers make wise decisions in their design. Without coding knowledge, designers can waste everyone’s time designing something that is not implementable.

There is a school of thought that designers do not need to know how to code, that the coding should be left up to the developers. That same school of thought goes on to posit that designers need to be aware of code and comprehend what it can do so they can build better designs. Do you agree or disagree, and why?

I don’t disagree; however, I am the type of designer who likes to create the entire website from start to finish. When designers work with a team, they can leave the coding to the developer. When they do their own work; however, they should be able to code themselves. Jessica Hische is a good model. She is a killer letterer, but she can also code her own site.

Some organizations have separate design and development functions. Do you believe those separate functions should overlap in any sense, and if so, where do you see the optimal intersection of design and development?

Yes, design and development should overlap. If designers can understand HTML and CSS and developers understand a few things about design and typography, their collaboration would be more integrated and fruitful. They would have a better respect for each other’s expertise and experience.

Some digital designers and developers have offered that every website looks the same, and that creativity has been lost in the process. What are your views on this? Do you blame anyone or anything for this supposed templatization of the web? Please explain.

The rise of frameworks are causing designers and developers to put their designs into templates rather than creating unique experiences. Because of their ease of use, frameworks have become a clutch for designers and developers. Instead of creating a grid system to support their designs, designers and developers use the grids that have already been created for them. As a result, most sites look the same because they all using the same grid system for different projects.

What are your thoughts on HTML/next (HTML6) and CSS4? What new things do you see in web design and development that designers need to prepare for now?

The beauty of HTML and CSS is not where they are heading in the future, but how well they last. For example, the first website created 25 years ago still work today. Once the designers understand the basics of HTML and CSS, they can use them forever.

What do you believe is the next big thing in web design and/or Responsive Design? Why? Where should we be looking for new ideas and solutions? Please explain.

I don’t know the next big thing about web design and responsive design, but I hope that we will be moving away from the templatization of web design and development. We need to create more unique and compelling experiences on the web.

No one knows what the future will bring, but please share your thoughts on what you think will happen in the fields of contextual design and experiential design. Cite examples if you are able.

I think we will see better use of type in web design. With better support for SVG and CSS Shapes, we will see better online editorial design. I also hope that designers and developers will break free from the spell of templatization.

If you’d like to make additional comments please provide them here.

The best way to learn about typography is to read books on the subject. The best way to learn about web typography is to build websites.